There are a lot of sayings in the Aviation Community to prove various points. One of them fits this story perfectly:
“Being a pilot consists of long periods of boredom speckled with moments of sheer terror”
This has never described my career. Terror is a very STRONG word. I’ve been scared and on edge at times, but ‘Terror’ is one a whole level of it’s own.
Well, I can now say that I have experienced Terror as a pilot. And I’m not proud of it.
Several weeks ago I was flying in the Pacific North West near Seattle, with all of it’s Aviation History and culture. I love being in places like this where the makeup of the community pretty much evolves around aviation.
While I was up there I wanted to see several places that I had come to enjoy in Flight Simulator, one being an airfield scenery accurately depicted by ORBX. This place is called ‘Concrete‘.
The world of Flight Simulator is inviting and holds a level of invulnerability that real pilots don’t get to have the luxury of dealing with. In the real world, all bets are off.
So, the romantic world of Flight Simulator was turned on it’s head when I experienced the real world takeoff out of Concrete. Now, don’t accuse me of thinking the real world is like flight simulator because I’ll be the first to say it’s totally different. And I point out WHY it was different below.
You have probably already watched the horrifying video above.
The video does not do a justice for what it was like to experience this myself. And really, I’m not trying to build this up into something bigger than it actually was. This was literally the most horrifying moment of my life. What’s what you call Terror.
Analyzing the Situation
And interesting chain of events preceded this takeoff, looking back now.
- I elected not to go direct to these small airstrips. Instead, we flew up north a bit and use about an hours worth of fuel. This lightened the load.
- The strip we went to before this was also a shorter field, actually the exact same field length, and I was able to practice the short field maneuvers before we even got to this airport.
- At the beginning of the video you hear me say, “I’m going to use every possible inch of runway”. Man, you can’t script it any better than that.
Several major things of note happened once full power was applied:
- I used all available runway before I took off, but lifted off about halfway down the runway.
- Just as I rotate, you can see I turn the aircraft just a few degrees to aim for the only opening in the trees. This was not something intentional I did at all, and something I only saw once reviewing the video. These are instincts a pilot can build and something I did unconsciously.
- There was an air pocket at that end of the runway (we knew, because we had flown through it on the arrival) and the aircraft didn’t climb well through that air pocket. That’s a bit hard to model in FS.
- All that is ‘human‘ in me told me to ‘pull up!‘ but all of my training said ‘airspeed, airspeed, airspeed‘. This meant a lower nose attitude than was comfortable, but the reality is it was better than stalling and not having a chance to get out at all. This is VERY difficult to stick with.
- The trees to the left and right, although they look close, aren’t as close as the trees underneath (if you didn’t see the trees underneath, re-watch the video)
Personal Note
As more of a personal note rather than an analytical note like above, this was the scariest thing I’ve ever felt. I truly didn’t know if I was going to make it. The only thing I could think of was airspeed, and my wife back home. Those were the only two things that crossed my mind for what seemed like a hundred times in those few intense seconds.
Once past the trees, I could breath and start to burn off all that adrenaline, although my hands and body were still shaking (from the intense infusion of adrenaline).
What I Learned
This was a very close call, to say the least. Every performance parameter was in place, the aircraft should have operated as ‘published’ in the documentation, but it didn’t. Because of many of the circumstances above (both good and bad) this ended with a very close call and a lesson learned.
So, what was the biggest lesson for me?
Know your personal minimums and the aircrafts ‘real’ minimums
Although the handbook says you can do it, and everything ‘checks out’, know what you are and are not comfortable with. Also, know what your aircraft really CAN and CANNOT do.
Please Comment
Other than that, I’d like to open up the comments and hear from you. I realize I run the risk of being railroaded for even showing this, and many might call me stupid (although I did everything by the book) but this is something I want the world to be able to learn from.
{ 196 comments… read them below or add one }
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Pretty good example of the consequences of taking off with the wind, agravated by the tall trees etc that can result in sink as the wind spills over them just where you are trying to climb. You are very fortunate to not be a statistic.
I missed something here, who has established that this was a downwind takeoff?
The only person who has the answer for sure is the pilot & he says not!
I am sure that if he did commit such a mistake this video would not have seen the light of day.
You’re right,
I would have chalked that up to my own idiocy (which I do own some) but this wasn’t the case.
This was a headwind takeoff, as it should have been.
Did you bother to look at the 2 or 3 windsocks on the right in full screen mode? They are indicating a headwind or, if anything else, a quarterly crosswind from ahead. It’s most definitely not a tailwind.
sure did, in HD on a 24″ monitor. Check the 3rd windsock at minute 01.16 just before lift off. Changed your mind?
No it didn’t change my mind at all, because the pole of that windsock is to the left while the sock is on the right. If this was a tailwind we would see the exact opposite from this viewing position. Plus, we don’t see the opening of the windsock (which would be the case if it was a tailwind) but only the reflection of the sun on its top. I have to repeat myself: If anything this was a crosswind from the front left but definitely not a tailwind. Windsocks don’t point towards the wind, you know?
For further evidence watch the latest FSBreak episode for the landing footage at Concrete. They came in FROM the West and after touchdown we get a clear shot of one of the windsock indicating a definite tailwind blowing from the West. Now, landing downwind wasn’t the best thing to do either, but since the takeoff TO the West was only moments later it’s very, very safe to assume that the wind was still blowing from the West, which makes it a headwind, as indicated by the windsock(s) in this video.
p.s.: I have an 24″ monitor as well and watched th video in HD too, if that has anything to do with it.
p.p.s: look at these:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7052/chrisincident1.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6318/chrisincident2.jpg
Apologies Patrick– I thought your reply was to MY post & not Leighs & that you were agreeing with Leigh re the downwind t/o.
I agree with the cross wind left to right & not a tail wind. The point re the monitor size & definition means you have a clearer view of the windsocks?
I would be ashamed to be a statistic based on false information. I’d rather go down as a martyr, teaching something that wasn’t previously known.
But, this wouldn’t be the case here. I had a headwind/crosswind departure.
The windsocks (there are two visibile on the hangars) are anything but stable. They are whipping about as though the wind is gusty with variable direction. I don’t know about THIS strip, or THIS situation, but I’ve often seen wind shifts from midfield to departure end under that have turned a highly variable wind favorable for takeoff in one direction into a tailwind that puckers things pretty strongly. I agree this was a tailwind takeoff.
neve once did i see the windsock indicate a tailwind take off. look again. This was a crosswind/headwind.
Here’s an aeronautical question concerning the crosswind flight:
IF it was a crosswind, why do we not see a crab into the wind. His flight path is directly where the nose is pointed. If it was a left crosswind, his nose would be left of the track, which it obviously is not.
Rob, this is because right at rotation the pilot used crossed controls to keep the nose pointing forward which is also why he couldn’t get any decent rate of climb.
I didn’t use cross controls. That would be poor on performance.
Rob,
The camera makes the whole thing pretty deceiving. If the camera were pointed right down the longitudinal axis, which it’s not, it would be a lot easier to see the crab angle.
I have plenty of video showing landings and stuff where it looks like I’m totally off, yet, in the last 5 feet when the runway really comes in focus you can see it’s lined up.
Just a visual illusion is all.
Thanks, Melinda. You’re correct.
I believe the wind shifted to a crosswind, but it wasn’t a tailwind takeoff.
Dude!
I’m so very glad you didn’t eat those big macs when you were there you would have never made it!
Very good teaching points and great post as always man…
But I have to point out…. Blown tire, now a near miss… Chris i’m worried about you
Jason
Thanks, Jason.
Yeah, too many close calls. Someone I talked to told me they’d stop flying after this.
But, you don’t stop driving a car if you almost get in an accident, right?
Someone is watching out for me.
Chris, why did you choose to land downwind? Did you simply land on 7, taxi to 25, and takeoff again?
Glad you survived.
Hey there,
Thanks!
We landed on runway 7, taxied back to the middle of the field, chilled out for a few minutes (airplane was still running) and then we made a go at runway 25, which was favored by the winds.
Dude I really dig your website’s logo!
Thanks.
This is either staged or these are two very big dorks with little aviation skill. Don’t buy your next rating ladies, drop that “checked” crap and learn to fly the plane by looking outside. Next rating you get you should try earning.
Question: Did we survive? Was the airplane stalled? Was there anything that was done totally wrong in this procedure?
I want to know what credentials you have to say such things, if you even have any at all.
We are all trying to learn here, and all you want to do is attack.
Take your abrasive comments somewhere else, because you’re not welcome here.
With respect Patrick, it seems that you might consider getting a CFI experienced in flying your type of plane to some refresher training on handling it at slower speeds such as takeoffs and landings on something other than 5000 ft plus runways. What seems to have excaped your comprehension is that by simply pulling back a bit on the controls you could have easily cleared those trees since it is obvious that you were well above stall speed. By not getting altitude while still over the runway you got into a situation where you were flying below the tree tops allowing the wind to spill down on you and fight your climb at that point, though it still would have helped if you had tried to climb. I fly an Arrow with 180 hp and have come out of runways much shorter than that with obsrutions at both ends with loading comparable to yours, but one’s technique is kind of important and not something to learn on your own when trying to come out of a short strip with clearance issues. Since I understand you are moving to Alaska, the need for such additional training is much more urgent to avoid any bad outcomes.
Who’s Patrick?
I’m Patrick. But he probably meant you. Leigh mixes things up sometimes. Reality and fiction for instance.
I see a lot of Monday night quarterbacks with plenty of hind-sight.
I believe Chris is as good of a pilot as they come anywhere, yet piloting is risk-management and no matter how well you manage the risk, it is always present.
Unforeseen variables can show their face at anytime. I believe Chris handled the situation very well and the proof is that he is still with us.
I thought it was pretty gutsy and open, to share that video with everyone, but he is taking a lot of flack for it. I doubt if we will see any more interesting videos of close encounters from Chris. Of course, I hope there won’t be any more, but if there is, I doubt he will go through this post- experience beating again (:
Hey Bob,
I would go through this again. It is a great learning experience. Based on the discussion I’ve sen, people have really learned a lot and have taken a look at situations like this.
It would be worth posting again.
However, do I plan on doing anything like this again? No. I feel I have a grasp on what took place, and how to fly it better next time (regardless of the uncontrollable variables).
Thanks for the support as always, Bob. Good to see some people that can see through this.
So Bob, you don’t see any mistakes that Chris made? Dp take a look at the attitude of the plane and then tell me that you think this is one that would lead to climbing? His speed must have been sufficient since it took them only 30 seconds to reach the end of the runway, an average of 60 mph from a standing start, making me guess they were likely at least 90 mph at the end or about 30 mph more than stall speed. All he had to do was pull back on the controls a bit to easily clear the trees with lots of room to spare, unless he had encountered a stong tailwind.
Those of us who fly planes have all made some mistakes and if we live long enough will make more, hopefully none that kill or injure us or our passengers. In suggesting that the winds were not as he figured I was giving Chris the benefit of the doubt since that could account for the lack of abliity to climb in a powerful plane such as he was flying. The only other things would be engine problems or poor piloting since the DA was not a factor nor was the loading.
With all due respect, could you be any more patronizing ? On top of calling Chris a liar?
It’s not exactly as easy as you explain. I was doing Vx at the time and giving the aircraft everything it had.
In your explanation, you would have ‘pulled back’ and plowed into the trees.
Pulling back wasn’t an option, sorry.
“So Bob, you don’t see any mistakes that Chris made?”
Yeah…putting this video up for public display and exposing himself to being accused of “poor piloting” by a lot of Monday night quarterbacks who may not be willing to put their mistakes, which you readily admit are made by every pilot, on display for public dissection.
I just think a little sensitivity is needed here.
“Those of us who fly planes have all made some mistakes and if we live long enough will make more, hopefully none that kill or injure us or our passengers.”
This is the exact reason why people watching this film should be very sensitive to how they address and respond to this situation which they can easily find themselves in…or maybe even worse.
It is very easy to assume “pilot error” when all of the facts are not known.
I believe Chris flew out of this situation very calmly, professionally and skillfully. I wouldn’t hesitate, and would be honored to be his passenger anytime.
“I wouldn’t hesitate, and would be honored to be his passenger anytime.”
Thanks Bob
Couldn’t agree with your comment any more.
I am amazed by people’s ability to assume that he could have ‘just pulled back on the controls to clear the trees’ even though we can’t see the ASI in the video. If you’re ready to assume that, excuse me for being rude but I think you’re an idiot.
I think if he’d had the airspeed to do that, he would have just done it. Any pilot would do that.
I’m not saying Chris didn’t mess up. Something went wrong, either the increase in gross weight from his conversion isn’t reflected in the POH, or he rotated early and got on the backside of the power curve, or a downdraft, or something. I don’t know to what extent this could have been predicted given the info available to Chris at the time and I don’t know whether he flew the right profile (but I do know he knew he needed his mojo, he knew it was going to be a bit close).
And I do applaud him for posting the video and taking the flak.
Hey Tom,
I think I’ll let the ‘idiot’ thing slide on this one since someone with a low airspeed ‘pulling back’ would definitely be an idiot. Better yet, a dead idiot.
I agree with you that there are things I could have done better. But that knowledge has only come as a result of getting a lot of great feedback from real pilots who fly the Bonanza and have for years.
There’s a much better way of doing short field takeoffs, but at the time I didn’t know how to do these. I was taught the FAA version of short field, which in my opinion is dangerous to assume it works for all models.
So I’m a commercial inst. rated pilot, I’ve had one situation “like” this, however not nearly as close!! Thank god
I’m looking for insight, advice, experience about what how the airflow characteristics are affecting the airplanes performance as it leaves ground effect and enters “the forest”. Someone commented that the wind above the trees is pushin down on the plane and hampering the climb?? I’ve never flown out of an area like the one on the video, I’m hoping to learn something from your lesson if you don’t mind 
Anyone care to share I would appreciate it greatly!!
Thanx
I’ll pass along a few observations based on my own experiences as well as things that were shown to me by some very very experienced bush pilots.
-the windsocks are all mounted well below the level of the tree tops and therefore won’t show accurately what the wind is doing above the trees, somewhat demonstrated by the swirling action of them in the video. Chris was facing a bit of a challenge since the winds he was taking off in were going to vary a lot depending on where and how high he was and there was a good chance he encountered sinking air as he entered the trees since the winds would spill over the tops and down just where he was flying. This is why it was so important for him to get off and up as steeply as possible once he left the runway to get above the tree top level before reaching them. It is quite possible that he wasn’t actually in a tailwind at this point but the plane sure seemed to act as if it were.
- when rotating in a strong crosswind the natural action of the plane will be to weathercock to keep it’s nose pointing into the wind yet still procede aloing the centerline and I would have expected to see this in the video but noted that instead we see the pilot fighting this action by essentially sideslipping to the left to keep the plane on the centerline even to the extent of moving slightly left of it. It would seem that he instinctively used the rudder and ailerons to crosscontrol it and thus greatly reduced the ability of the plane to climb rather than allowing the plane to swing its nose into the wind. The techniqe I have been shown in taking off in a severe crosswind is to not pull on flaps till just as I rotate thus getting a very positive jump off the runway and guarantee the plane will keep flying since it will be crabbed according to its direction over the ground. I happen to fly a Piper Arrow which has manual flaps making this action a bit easier than planes with electric ones. The important thing is to get the greatest angle of climb as soon as possible after lifting off and be higher than the trees before reaching them which I guess is kind of obvious, so a bit of practice to get used to the speed, attitude and configuration of planes you fly to accomplish this might be a good idea.
-I know of more cases of crashes on landing than taking off at such runways surrounded by tall trees since it is common for planes to stall in once below the strong winds above them as they descend into the calm air below the tops. I have heard the claim that the air is sinking and in some cases it seems to likely be true when the runway is not completely surrounded by trees like the one in the video. No question, Chris was landing and taking off in a more challenging situation than he perhaps was used to or expected. I guess the observation that he pretty much destroyed a tire while doing severe braking after his landing confirms this since a normal landing on a 2600 ft strip should hardly require any braking at all. Most of us fly out of airports with none of these issues so seldom get much practice at this so hours of flying or ratings have little to do with our ability to handle this when we encounter it.
Leigh,
Some good points here.
The only correction I would make is to say that I wasn’t cross controlled. I only cross control when doing cross wind landings (in the final moments) and forward slips to land.
I never cross control to keep centerline under circumstances like this.
I think you’re getting tricked by the wide angle camera here.
Well Tom, maybe you should look into a mirror if you want to see an idiot.
I have to assume that you are not a pilot for you to make such statements. In the video it is clear that he never really rotates as the nose hardly lifts at all, suggesting that he was a long long way from stalling. If you look at the time displayed on the video from the time he starts his takeoff roll you will see that he crosses the other end of the runway (over 2600 ft including displacements) in about 30 seconds for an AVERAGE speed of 60 mph, therefore he was going a lot more than that at the far end, likely over 90, maybe even 100 ground speed. Assuming that he didn’t have a tailwind then his airspeed was even greater which gave him a huge margin above stalling, yet you say he couldn’t pull back to gain some altitude. I don’t know why he didn’t pull back but clearly he didn’t and could have and thus avoided all the drama. I also can’t imagin why he was concerned about getting airborne off this 2600 ft runway since at the DA he was at he had far more than that needed to take off and clear the trees. His comments on the video before trying to takeoff suggest he didn’t know if he had enough which suggests that he isn’t the great pilot you suggest, at least not experienced in taking off from runways that are not 5 or 10 thousand feet long perhaps. If you don’t know for sure you can get airborne it is irresponsible to “try”, moreso with two passengers whose lives you are jeopardizing with the experiment. What the heck was he thinking in doing this? It borders on criminal.
For you to suggest that perhaps he was “on the back side of the power curve” is hilarious since the nose of his plane sure didn’t lift. From this I assume you are not a pilot, just a sim one.
I do respect him for posting this video as hopefully it will help him avoid these kind of mistakes in the future by learning. I really do hope he gets hold of his CFI and reviews this takeoff etc. I figure he is a nice fellow and it would be a damned shame to read about him in an accident report. Experience is a great teacher but the tuition can kill you.
Leigh,
I put it to you that your comments here reveal your lack of knowledge, or care, or both.
1) You first off assumed it was a downwind take-off, which Chris has told us it wasn’t, and which folks more diligent than I have confirmed by looking at the socks.
2) A big part of Chris’s whole story was that he had to force himself not to pull the nose up, because he didn’t have any airspeed to spare. (from his original post: “All that is ‘human‘ in me told me to ‘pull up!‘ but all of my training said ‘airspeed, airspeed, airspeed‘. This meant a lower nose attitude than was comfortable, but the reality is it was better than stalling and not having a chance to get out at all. This is VERY difficult to stick with.”). This is totally inconsistent with your assumption that he could have simply pulled up. That is what is idiotic: “Oh, pull up! Of course! I should have thought of that…”
3) I never suggested he is a great pilot. In fact I mentioned that “I’m not saying Chris didn’t mess up.” I believe he messed up. I don’t know whether it was a misinterpretation of the book numbers or poor pilot technique or a combination. There are downdrafts of course that will make a situation not conform to the book, in which case his screw-up was an insufficient margin of safety.
4) I applaud your efforts to investigate this near-accident by timing the video and trying to estimate the angle of attack from the video, but since you can’t see the instruments, these techniques are subject to significant errors.
5) You chastised me for thinking he might have been on the backside of the power curve, but look at the attitude / stall warning at lift-off, followed by lowering the nose to gain airspeed – perhaps he rotated a little early and was briefly on the backside of the power curve; enough to degrade the climb performance and contribute to his problems.
By the way, I am a ‘real pilot’, not a ‘sim pilot.’
Hey Tom,
The whole power curve thing is a very interesting discussion, and may be a valid issue with the technique.
Additionally, as you so greatly pasted, I was giving it all I could. I couldn’t simply ‘pull up’.
I’ve learned a lot, and if put in this situation again, it would be a non-event. But that’s what the brunt of a bunch of different opinions and actual facts can do.
Thanks for defending this situation from a practical standpoint. It’s clear you have a level head about it all.
“In the video it is clear that he never really rotates as the nose hardly lifts at all, suggesting that he was a long long way from stalling.”
I was on the brink of stalling the entire time. I was doing the best I could with the aircraft, regardless of your assumptions about what my airspeed was and what the performance is like with a Bonanza.
“His comments on the video before trying to takeoff suggest he didn’t know if he had enough which suggests that he isn’t the great pilot you suggest, at least not experienced in taking off from runways that are not 5 or 10 thousand feet long perhaps. If you don’t know for sure you can get airborne it is irresponsible to “try”, moreso with two passengers whose lives you are jeopardizing with the experiment. What the heck was he thinking in doing this? It borders on criminal.”
Do you remember the first time you took off at an airport like this? There’s a difference between practice and the real thing. It’s a whole different story when there are REAL trees there, like in this situation.
Earlier I had taken off from a similar field in length and altitude, and I had no issues at all. Therefore, I was hyped up by having the ACTUAL thing right there in front of me- no more pretending.
You have some pretty bold and rude suggestions here.
“For you to suggest that perhaps he was “on the back side of the power curve” is hilarious since the nose of his plane sure didn’t lift. From this I assume you are not a pilot, just a sim one.”
And you obviously haven’t flown a Bonanza before. My rotation in this procedure was probably too aggressive, which exacerbated the issue.
“I do respect him for posting this video as hopefully it will help him avoid these kind of mistakes in the future by learning. I really do hope he gets hold of his CFI and reviews this takeoff etc. I figure he is a nice fellow and it would be a damned shame to read about him in an accident report. Experience is a great teacher but the tuition can kill you.”
Some good blips here, but there are tons of horrible CFIs out there. I’m not saying the CFIs I have flown with are bad, because some where very great. But none of them have EVER done anything like this before.
Merely suggesting I should get a hold of a CFI like that is the fix-all is pretty laughable.
I would take a guy that is a non-CFI with 4000 Bonanza hours to show me rather than an actual CFI any day.
This is a bold statement, so brace for impact: CFIs know little but what experience teaches them, just like any other pilot.
“I have to assume that you are not a pilot for you to make such statements”
I have to also assume that you’re not an investigator, since your focus is on simply on tryjing to make yourself look intelligent at Chris’ expense.
I also have to assume that you are not a real pilot, since I have never seen a “real” pilot act so insensitive toward fellow pilots.
Real pilots know that dangerous situations can happen at any time to any pilot, and they wouldn’t be stepping up on a soapbox to run another pilot into the dirt. Especially calling an event like this “bordering on criminal”. That is an irresponsible statement obviously made by a non-pilot.
Chris titled this video “My Scariest Moment” because he wanted to share it with his sim enthusiast and students, that would appreciate the real risks involved with real piloting verses the safety of the virtual world of MSFS and X-Plane.
If he needed your snobbish opinion, he would have titled it “What Should Have I Done?”
James Stephen Fossett was one of the most skilled and experienced pilots who was respected by the whole aviation world, yet he is a stain on the side of a mountain. A humble end for a great aviator.
But I’m sure you could have showed him a thing or two….yeah….right.
Bob,
HAHAHA! Some great one liners here.
The truth is that although there is a great brotherhood of safety oriented pilots, we all aren’t of one mind. I have seen pilots do very unsafe things and justify it.
I’ve also seen people dodge clouds with an instrument rating, making me wonder if they ever try new SAFE things (like this takeoff) with their aircraft.
I’m not saying I live on the edge, but I know what is safe and isn’t.
This takeoff should have been a non-event and I’m learning more and more why things turned out the way they did.
WILL SOMEONE PLEASE CLOSE THIS POST AS IT IS JUST GOING ROUND & ROUND IN CIRCLES.
Nuff said surely!
Thanks Chris for posting the video & sharing your experience with us!
Air pockets? I thought that concept was laughed off back in the 30s. I think downdraft is a more descriptive term.
Never took off from Concrete, but I had a similar experience flying a not-too-skinny Channel 7 reporter out of Darrington. Followed the road, hoping that I wouldn’t need it.
Sure, downdraft may be a little different, but I think it’s more complex than that.
I think it was a mix of a very small downdraft, a strong shear crosswind, and a different ‘thermal’ over the ‘grassy area’ decreasing the performance.
Of course, that’s longer to explain than just saying air pocket
Thanks for the comment.
Chris,
Thanks for sharing your video and your experience. I’ll add to this as best I can.
I am a pilot working on my IFR. March 13, 2010 I was involved in a single engine airplane crash. I was NOT flying, I was a rear seat passenger with my 2 year old son.
Here is the NTSB report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=CEN10LA159&rpt=p
My very dear friend and one of the best pilots I know was at the controls. 14,000 plus hours. U name the rating, he has it. This fine day, none of that mattered. BY the grace of GOd we all walked away from the crash. I now belong to a very elite group of aircraft accident survivors, especially in a plane that was destroyed. 4 souls left that day, 4 walked (*kind of) away.
My point is you were very lucky and it is apparent you are no slouch of a pilot. You can do everything right and still end up on the wrong side of the sky. I know what it feels like to break both femurs, not fun. That’s a tremendous amount of impact for a seatbelt. At 6’2″ 225 lbs. I was tossed like a rag doll. Piloting saved our lives ultimately as my buddy flew the plane to the crash site.
I respect you showed the video and to me, I could hear the sincere gratitude of being alive in your voice. Good for you. It’s also evident that at no point in this video did you panic. Also the sign of a good pilot.
It’s easy to cast judgements when you’ve not been there. May you never have another close call but if you do…I feel you will handle it just fine.
Glad you survived but am curious why the pilot was unable to do an engine-out landing without crashing considering that part of the world isn’t exactly mountainous? Seems to me from my experience is that Cessan 206′s are pretty good for slow soft field landings.
Horribly insensitive.
You are going to be getting an email from me regarding the way you conduct yourself on my blog.
As you can see, the people here won’t stand for it.
You’re warned, but I won’t chastise you more here. Look for my email soon.
Here is the response of a real pilot Leigh. Just so you know for future reference when you want to really sound like one.
So Bob, a pilot who can’t land a plane safely on the plains of OK after losing an engine is a “real pilot”? Seems to me you are missing something.
In your little fantasy world Oklahoma might be one big perfectly fine surface where an ace pilot like you can land without problems but in the real world normal run of the mill pilots have to deal with little details like trees, lamp posts, sinkholes, treetrunks, muddy ground, animals, cars, people, telephone & power lines, fences and a ton of other things that can kill you during a forced landing. Even with no mountains around.
Yep, no mountains. Also no cars, lamp posts, sinkholes, power lines and fences and darned few cars or people either. Looks like lots of good places to safely conduct an emergency landing. My friend who died a few days ago in a crash would have gladly had those options rather than crashing into the ocean during a thunderstorm.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/O14
http://www.airport-data.com/airport/photo/011555.html.html
You are missing something. The guys in this accident didn’t. They hit a stump, a mole hill, or a ditch, it doesn’t matter. Crap happens and to assume it was pilot error is freakin’ ridiculous.
Seriously, watch yourself. This is getting out of control.
Why was your friend flying near a thunderstorm? Those kill people too. Sorry for your loss.
Very easy to assume it was nice and flat. Everyone walked away, and this guy now has a sweeter appreciation for life.
Show a little respect.
They were at the end of a four hour flight about midnight and there were storms moving in but not over the airport yet. They missed their first approach and were going to do another but the radar track showed the plane veared off the normal track and went down into the Atalantic. Seems that there were three witnesses who claim to have seen a plane on fire going down near the last radar contact but there was no radio contact from them after aknowledging the controllers instructions regarding the missed approach. Yesterday they called off the search since there is no chance of finding them alive anymore. No one knows why the plane crashed, perhaps it was hit by lightning which we all know can come out of a clear sky within miles of a storm. (One of my son’s highschool classmates was killed while playing center field in a baseball game well after the storm had passed.) Anyhow, now our thoughts and prayers are with his wife and young kids.
I have flown for 38 years and will continue to do so as long as I can pass medicals. I have had friends and associates die in crashes, many of them totally avoidable which is perhaps why I take proficiency serously and was somewhat shocked by the cavalier attitude of some here making comments such as “way to go, dude, wow” etc
Chris I know you are a responsible person who is working to become a better pilot, something even the most experienced should do and usually do. This activity of flying need not be dangerous unless we take a cavalier attitude to it, at least no more dangerous than other things such as driving a car, certainly less so than a motorcycle. I expect you have reviewed your actions during that takeoff and learned from them. i for one am very glad that you didn’t have an accident during that one but hope to never come quite as close as you did to one. I have had flights that did have me thinking “that wasn’t the best way to do that” and in some cases I did get hold of better much more experienced pilots to get advice (sure do agree with your observation about many CFI’s not being the best for experience of unusual situations). The best I have found are the old bush pilots who have flown tens of thousands of hours working from strips that hardly qualify as airports or in some cases not from airports at all, and have flown over a hundred different types. I expect that you will find such in Alaska and like me find they are a great source of knowledge that you can’t get from the books.
Enjoy your flying Chris, stay safe too.
I’m real sorry about the loss of your friend, Leigh.
I have to say that now you are sounding to me, like my vision of what a real pilot should be.
You have to remember that we are not all real pilots here, but many of us, like myself, are folks who have chosen other carriers and paths. Maybe because the road we took didn’t lead in that direction, physical limitations didn’t allow it, or something else just grabbed our interest early on and the circumstances that expose one to aviation just were not there. Non the less, we still have a high admiration for that breed that become good pilots in real life, both commercial and recreational.
When we are exposed to the writings of real pilots, like yourself and others on these blogs and forums, it represents the high standard of intellectual maturity and focus that we envision is required from all serious pilots in order to operate the most complex equipment safely in the most complex circumstances.
Maybe because of the stress of the loss of your friend, you just were not displaying your real personality in your previous writing.
From your most recent writing, I can say that I am persuaded that you are a real pilot of that special caliber that draws the admiration of those of us who have not traveled that road, but only remind ourselves of how special those people are through flight simulation.
Hey There,
Not sure of your name, and that’s fine. I can imagine why you’d want to stay anonymous.
Anyway, God Bless You my friend. Like you said, you are one of the few to live through a situation like that. The pilot you were flying with must have been exceptional. You all walked away.
In a situation like that, what else can you ask for?
Thanks for your humble comment and your willingness to put a new spin on this story.
Happy skies to you, safe skies at that. Good luck with your instrument.
Hope to see you around more.
Throttle On!
Just another question.
Does anybody knows where Chris is? It seems to me a little bit curious, since days (or just weeks) no sign, no comment, no new episode, just nothing…
I hope everything is allright with him, and he´s well!
Rainer
He has been in the process of moving to Alaska. I can imagine that is no small task.
He is probably up there stretched out on the beach with some bikini clad chick, watching the Russian border. Wait a minute, is that Sarah Palen?
HAHAHAHA! “I can see Russia from my house!”
Actually, Bob is incorrect. I tucked tail and ran because I couldn’t handle all of the feedback and horrible comments that hurt my feelings.
NOT!
My wife and I just drove 3200 miles to Alaska with a 5000 pound trailer and 2 pets in 5 days.
I’m doing well and you are going to see a newer and stronger AOA than ever. It is now my full time duty.
THROTTLE ON!
Chris,
I’m glad to see that you made it safely and had a good trip. Where abouts in Alaska are you? That is some beautiful country just from the pictures and what I’ve seen on FSX, but with my Tropical loving blood, I wouldn’t do good there. (:
I’m in Homer, Alaska. Very nice here. Top temp each year is around 70, and the low is around 20 (above). Not bad at all!
I checked out Homer on Wikipedia and it looks like a beautiful place. Only thing, I was right about Sarah Palin. Look at the news paper headlines:
Saturday, August 7 2010
“Palin visits Homer for cable TV show” Ha, ha.
Good to hear everything went fine! Glad to have you back.
Yup! Time to rock and or roll!
“Flying is so many parts skill, so many parts planning, so many parts maintenance, and so many parts luck. the trick is to reduce the luck by increasing the others.” -David L. Baker
Love it.
Hello Chris,
Even a real pilot that would take more chances wouldn’t speak with such arrogance, knowing that there are so many parts to the equation of a successful flight. Only a certain amount of those factors are under the pilot’s control.
Very true.
Thanks for the note Chris:
In my earlier post I didn’t mean to imply that the wind was from the tail while on the ground. However I’ve seen conditions in mountain strips where windsocks that whip around as they did in the video indicate a shear at about the tree top level. From the climb performance you described, and as recorded in the images of the video, it looks like that’s what happened. Variable, but head wind at the surface, with shear to tail wind after lift off… hence a tail wind takeoff. That helps understand the anemic climb performance of an otherwise capable airplane in the hands of a capable pilot.
What John describes is not all that unusual at strips with trees or montains around them. I’ve seen socks at both ends pointing in opposite directions, both indicating winds blowing away from the runway. When landing in such conditions one sure has to keep in mind that any missed approach might be very difficult since you will be climbing out with a tail wind, yet on final the wind direction seemed to indicate straight crosswind till below the level of the trees.
The effect of strong tail winds can bite you even when well away from the airport. A few years ago a fellow flying a King Air hit a mountain top in IMC while climbing from a valley with a very strong tailwind. He had flown the route many times and had no trouble climbing over the ridge at his rate of climb but the tailwind increased his ground speed a lot thus flattening his angle of climb enough he got to the ridge much sooner and lower than he normally would have. The impact was about 40 ft from the top so he almost made it.
40 feet… GAH! So close.
That’s too bad.
I have a video I’ll show you in a few days that shows what the wind situation is. It’s pretty intense.
This will be part of the follow up diagnosis.
did anyone see Most Extreme Airports on the history channel? If not, you missed a very interesting program. I missed it two times in a row so I was determined to set up my DVR for the next broadcast.
Man, I’d really love to fly into Kai Tak. Maybe I’ll check out the FSX version
I still recall the first time I flew (as a passenger) into Kai Tak airport in Hong Kong back about 1986, at night so we could see into the windows of all the people living along the approach path. Sure seemed awful close as we could almost see what they were having for supper. I read that it was closed when the new airport was ready so your chance of actually flying into it I guess is gone. When ever experiencing the gong show that today passes for security at airports I’m glad I did all my international business travel before things got so stupid. I was doing about 150 to 200 flights a year on almost as many different airlines, some very good like Singapore Air and some terrible like Garuda or Aeroflot, and sort of wondered when my number might be up. Had a couple of aborted takeoffs, twice blown tires on landing (one in the Carribean where we were put up in a 5 star resort waiting for it to be fixed) and missed one flight that subsequently crashed on trying to land in a tropical rainstorm in Venezuela though no one was hurt. Sure saw some strange things though, like Aeroflot’s announcement that “this is a non-smoking flight, if you wish to smoke only do so in the lavatory”, along with “if your carry on bags won’t fit under your seat or overhead then please put them infront of the exit doors”. It truly is a very strange world out there.
My memory of flying into Kai Tak was back in 67. I was in the Air Force at the time based at Changi in Singapore.
I had heard that the approach was something to remember, it certainly was. In non pilot terms it consisted of heading straight towards a checkered marker board painted on the side of a mountain & what seemed to be at the last moment turning 90 degrees right for the final approach to 13. I also remember looking UP at the apartments with there washing hanging from bamboo poles suspended out of the kitchen windows. This was an extremely effective way of drying your laundry (we used the same system in Singapore) It was always interesting to see what extra laundry had been acquired when washing accidently dropped down from apartments above you, or conversley, knocking on the door downstairs to retrieve your lost shorts.
Ah, happy days!
Bruce, did you frequent Kai Tak long enough to see the lighting system that was installed in (as I recall) 1970, that further helped planes negotiate the 47 degree right hand turn as part of the IGS 13 approach?
I’ve also heard of both pilots and passengers being able to see people eating at their dinner tables and even being able to see the TV programs they were watching in their living rooms………and how the cockpit had an eerie orange glow at night from the street lights below, as the right hand turn commences (as I recall, not having flown the approach on FSX in nearlly 18 months) at approximately 600 feet MSL)!
Sorry to continue this tangent away from the topic of discussion, but for me it’s a cool disembarkment thanks to a wonderful memory.
Hi Tony
Returned to the UK in 68. I recall I think it was 3 flights into Kai Tak & all in daylight so no recollection of any special lighting.
Yes, I can confirm that you could see into the rooms of the high rise apartments, a very strange experience.
Just as exciting was one of our departures. The departure routing had to be stricly adhered to due to the close proximity of islands under the red flag (at the time Hong Kong was a British Protectorate) and more so if you were a military a/c. Anyway we were off on a sortie before returning to Singapore & were near to max all up weight. Our climb performance I suppose was nearly as good as the Bonanza (ha). The departure radar was nearly busting a blood vessel attempting to route us arround all the islands so as to not cause a diplomatic incident by over flying at 500ft
Wow, you guys actually had the pleasure of flying into Kai Tak, awesome! I’ve seen footage of that approach on my ITVV video.
Chris,
I would fly with you any time. The people trying to bash you base their accusations on a ton of factors they have know way of proving – and even calling you a liar – it’s just too incredible. They certainly lack a proper conduct of communication and respect for other people. I’m shocked beyond belief.
Now, you say if you flew the same takeoff today with your new-gained knowledge it would have been a non-event. So how should it be done differently? You said “There’s a much better way of doing short field takeoffs”. What is that better way?
I looked at the video several times and there seemed to be little crosswind component to take off. As the plane taxied to align on 25, you can see the trees on the left (this is before take-off) being blown around by the wind dramatically. On the right, you can see the windsocks and an American flag all showing the same wind direction. Yes, wind is full of turmoil and gusts, but the primary wind flow shows the aircraft was flying into a headwind.
The one thing I haven’t seen on this thread, and admit I may have missed it, but what was the temperature and density altitude at the time of take-off?
Also, isn’t that the stall horn blaring when the mike is open? If that is the case, certainly he couldn’t have pulled back any further to climb.
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